Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205
02/07/2011 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
Audio | Topic |
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Start | |
SB24 | |
SB44 | |
Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ | SB 24 | TELECONFERENCED | |
*+ | SB 44 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 24-SPORT FISHING GUIDES: BOARD; LICENSES 3:33:40 PM CO-CHAIR WAGONER announced the consideration of SB 24. SENATOR MCGUIRE, speaking as sponsor of SB 24, stated that she gets involved in contentious fishing issues because she is a lifelong Alaskan and strong supporter of the fishing industry and is committed to preserving the resource for both commercial and sport fishing purposes. 3:35:10 PM SENATOR STEDMAN joined the committee. SENATOR MCGUIRE explained that SB 24 builds on SB 294 that she introduced last year to extend the licensing program for sport fishing guides into perpetuity, but the bill was amended in the House to sunset after just one year. Therefore, SB 24 aims to continue the program after this year. It has two components: the licensing component to ensure the competence of licensed guides, and the logbook component to ensure the collection of accurate data. It is the only data that is collected by the department. 3:38:59 PM The bill also transfers the licensing requirement from the Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) to a newly established board in the Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development (DCCED). This idea is patterned after the Board of Game and intends to bring representation to the 3,600 guides in the state and get them more involved in the industry. They would be the fourth largest group as an industry if SB 24 passes. She explained that logbook data is key to managing the state's fisheries and control of it remains in ADF&G. She also explained that because ADF&G doesn't collect enough fees to cover the cost of the licensing program, it is subsidized by other department funds. The funds should be used to manage fish, not the industry. So, in the end, SB 24 is about putting the regulation of guides as an industry in the hands of guides, so that ADF&G can focus on managing the resource rather than the industry. She said there are strong views on both sides of this bill. CO-CHAIR WAGONER said he would hold the bill and take public testimony on a Saturday to provide maximum opportunity for people to testify. He asked for someone to bring the bill before the committee. SENATOR PASKVAN moved to bring SB 24, version A, before the committee. There were no objections. 3:42:28 PM MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI, staff to Senator McGuire, noted that SB 24 came about as a result of a 2006-ADF&G task force that started looking at the concept of limited entry. In the intervening period, the existing guide licensing program was created by HB 452 in 2005 has been sunsetted and then extended on a one-year bases for two times. The upcoming lapse in the program in the existing guide requirements provides an opportunity to take a look at the licensing and regulation of the industry. As Senator McGuire pointed out and as the fiscal notes demonstrate, he said, currently ADF&G is subsidizing the running of this logbook and licensing program by over $200,000 annually, because not enough fees are collected through the licensing program to cover the cost of running and administering it. 3:44:01 PM MR. POWLAWSKI said t has become clear in working with the department that the logbook data is critical in managing the state's fisheries. SB 24 keeps the logbook program in ADF&G, but the licensing program would move to the Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development (DCCED) where analogous boards use fee-supported services to support the structure. He said the bill has errors related to the collection of fees, but he looked forward to cleaning that up so the fiscal notes more accurately reflect the intent. He walked the committee through the following sectional analysis: Section 1 states a purpose for the bill, which is to provide stability for the sportfish industry by regulating the activities of the sport fish guide, outfitters and transportation services. He noted that when the guide license was created, several business models popped up in the state that while they provided sport fishing services to clients, might not qualify as a guide. Under the current system those businesses aren't required to submit logbook data. The reason the bill has the different classifications of licenses - be it sport fishing, guide outfitter, or transporter - those are intended to meet the different business models that exist and get the logbook data into ADF&G's hands so it can be used for management. Section 2 creates the Sport Fishing Guides Services Board. This is where the rest of the boards are listed. Section 3 is the meat of the bill, which he said he would address in articles. 3:46:13 PM Article 1 on page 2, line 10, is the creation and membership of the board. It consists of 9 members appointed by the governor (as is the condition for most commercial services boards) with 5 members who are currently licensed sport fishing guides, a transporter, 2 public members, and 1 member from the Board of Fisheries. Language on page 2, lines 25-26, is fairly standard for commercial services boards where terms are staggered and the members do not receive compensation but are entitled to per-diem and traveling expenses (page 2, lines 26-27). Board Assistance is the next section and it is important to providing the technical assistance needed to fulfill its regulatory responsibility that the bill charges it with. Sec.08.57.030 on page 3 addresses duties and powers of the board. Lines 3-18 are the examination statutes creating examinations that demonstrate first: (A) a qualifying exam for guides and a certification exam; and (B) relates to the unit in which one is fishing or providing guide services for. MR. PAWLOWSKI said paragraph (3) on page 3, lines 22-23, is a departure from the existing statutes. Under the existing program the ADF&G does not really have the power to impose disciplinary actions on a guide through the licensing process. This is an important difference in the commercial services board concept - in that rather than having to complain to ADF&G enforcement or the Better Business Bureau, now the public and the guides themselves would have a disciplinary body made up of guides that they can go to complain about actions out in the industry. Then those complaints could either be dealt with through the licensing provisions or forwarded on to the Department of Law for prosecution. On page 4, lines 6-8, the board adopts regulations that include establishing a code of ethics for professions regulated by it. This is another departure from the existing licensing statutes, and it would enable the board to come up with good business practices guidelines. MR. PAWLOWSKI said language on page 4, lines 13-18, is significantly controversial and will enable the Commercial Services Board to start looking at the process of establishing, for resource conservation purposes, the maximum number of licensees who might operate within an existing sport fish guide unit or in a concessionaire program to achieve the maximum number. There is a lot of public concern over this provision, and it is different than existing statute under ADF&G the licensing program. 3:50:16 PM Article 2 on page 4, line 19, through page 10, line 5, is the licensing statutes. The first on line 27 is the sport fishing guide-outfitter license. The requirements are fairly similar to what exist in current statute in terms of CPR training or first aid, residency, and holding a current fishing license. New additions are on page 5, lines 9-12, which are the qualifying and the certifying examinations. MR. PAWLOWSKI said paragraph (8) relates to being licensed to perform the services of a sport fishing assistant guide in the state for at least 20 days within the last three years and having received a favorable recommendation from at least one licensed sport fishing guide outfitter. Part of the bill's provisions is to create a new assistant guide license to supplement the existing guide license much like the Big Game Commercial Services Board uses Big Game Hunting Guides and Big Game Assistant Guides who work their way up to become Master Guides. Page 6, line 30, through page 8, line 1, relates to the sport fishing outfitter license. This is a little bit different than the guide-outfitter. It is a person that may not be directly involved on the boat helping with fishing itself, but rather providing services helping people get out into the field and do fishing. In that that is still a commercial endeavor, this is a new type of license which would be required most importantly to provide logbook data on the catch rates of people using the service to get out and fish. Language on page 8, line 2, is about the sport fishing assistant guide license. This is the position that could advance to guide with the recommendation of a master guide. These are intended for the people who are the assistants to the outfitter who is taking people out. They are working under language in section (c) [page 8, lines 24-26]. This section is controversial, and time is needed to work with industry on it, Mr. Pawlowski said. 3:54:09 PM MR. PAWLOWSKI continued: page 9, line 9, through page 10, line 5, is the sport fishing transporter license section. This goes beyond the outfitter and to someone who is transporting to a permanent lodge or cabin or to a boat with permanent living quarters, but still being a commercial relationship between a client and the person providing the services. This would bring a different class of guide and guide-related services into the logbook and enforcement programs to give ADF&G data to use in managing fisheries. 3:54:49 PM Section 08.57.150 on page 10, lines 6-22, provides the renewal process. Lines 23-31 [on page 10] require financial responsibility and insurance to be carried by the licensee for sport fishing guide-outfitters, sport fishing outfitters, and sport fishing transporters. The assistant guides are not included in the proof of responsibility section; the presumption being that since they are under the employ and direct supervision of the guide outfitter, the guide outfitter would carry the appropriate level of insurance. This level of insurance is what is required of guides in current statute. 3:56:02 PM Page 11, line 6, Article 3, relates to enforcement, and that is a new power. The board has authority to impose certain disciplinary sanctions for: -violations of state or federal statute or regulation relating to sport fishing or to provisions of sport fishing guide- outfitter, sport fishing outfitter, sport fishing assistant guide, sport fishing assistant guide, or sport fishing transportation services; -failing to file records or reports required by law; -negligently misrepresenting or omitting a material fact on an application, -breaching an agreement with a client; -failing to comply with limitations or conditions of the professional practice of the licensee; -as well as the ability to: -impose certain disciplinary sanctions, singly or in combination -permanently revoke a license or suspend a license -censure or reprimand -impose limitations or conditions -impose requirements for remedial professional education -impose probation MR. PAWLOWSKI said a lot of these were taken from the Big Game Commercial Services Board. Again it creates the ability to have a separate line of enforcement in the community when people are bad operators and to have a place for the public to complain to. On page 12, line 2, the civil fine that can be levied under this section cannot exceed $5,000, which is standard for a lot of commercial service-type boards. 3:57:25 PM SENATOR STEVENS asked if the fine cap is for a single fine or a maximum. MR. PAWLOWSKI said he would provide an answer after he checks with Legislative Legal. He continued that language on page 12, line 24, relates to unlawful acts that have been defined. When the working group was developing the draft, this kind of language related to things that people were concerned about happening. For example, on page 12, lines 25-27 - to intentionally obstruct or hinder, or attempt to obstruct the lawful sport fishing engaged by a person who is not a client of the person (on a crowded river someone comes in and pushes someone else out of the way) - this is the type of bad behavior the board would have the ability to deal with. Knowingly guiding or assisting the guiding outside the unit where the person is licensed is another type of bad behavior on page 13, lines 9-11. He said drafting related these provisions back to specific requirements of licenses. SENATOR WAGONER said Charlie Swanton, Director of the Division of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), was on line to answer questions. MR. PAWLOWSKI said he neglected to mention that on page 13, lines 26-27, a person presenting themselves as a master sport fishing guide outfitter without being one is an unlawful act. He explained within the guide outfitter provision on page 6, lines 14-29, a special subset of the guide outfitter license is created called a master sport fishing guide license. The important requirements there (on page 6, lines 21-25) are having been a sport fishing guide for 12 of the last 15 years and then getting letters from 10 clients that would allow somebody to advertise themselves as a master guide. This license carries no additional powers and no additional responsibilities; it seems to be more of an advertising concept that was put into the bill as it came out of the task force working group. He added that you cannot represent yourself as a master guide unless you have actually received the master guide's license. 4:01:19 PM Page 14 is the responsibility section. It spreads the responsibility for violations of one of the responsibilities of those licenses equally across the difference license classes. Page 15, lines 26-31, addresses license examinations and fees under the current program in the ADF&G that are fixed. This is what has led to the revenue problem that the fiscal note identifies and this language is a significant departure from existing statute. It would give the Department of Commerce, Community and Economic Development (DCCED) and the board the responsibility for adjusting the fees based on the amount of revenue needed for the program, so that the program itself can become self sustaining, and so that the industry being regulated will be paying the state for the cost of the program. 4:02:26 PM SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if this would apply to regular sport fish licenses. MR. PAWLOWSKI answered no; this is particularly for guide, guide outfitter, transporter, and assistant guide licenses - people involved in the commercial use of fish. SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI referenced the annual $1.1 million fiscal note and asked if they assumed a gap would occur that would need an appropriation. MR. PAWLOWSKI answered under the DCCED enough fees have to be collected to pay for the cost of the programs. So, on page 1 of the fiscal note, under "revenues and funds sources," it's all "fund code 1156 receipts supported services." There are no general funds in this program, he stated. SENATOR PASKVAN asked how many licenses will be issued for calculating the amount of the fee. MR. PAWLOWSKI replied about 3,500 licenses within the state or about $300 per license (back of the envelope calculation). SENATOR PASKVAN asked if there is an intent to limit the number of licenses and would that bar some people from becoming assistant guides. MR. PAWLOWSKI replied that there is no intent for limited entry; and in order to get there, a finding would have to be made by the Commercial Services Board. But they are concerned if there were to be a limited area, then there might be a problem with assistant guides moving up. They are trying to work on language. SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how many people who are currently performing this type of work will not go ahead and get the license. MR. PAWLOWSKI replied that he didn't have that figure, but he would be happy to get some analysis of whether there has been a change in the number of guides on an annual basis from the moment the guide licensing program was initially created in 2004. 4:06:10 PM CO-CHAIR WAGONER suggested he check the drop in sport halibut licensees. SENATOR STEDMAN remarked that it appears that there is no tie-in in this bill for situations where one or more sport fish guides are egregious in their violations while being directed by lodge owners. How was that going to be handled? 4:07:32 PM MR. PAWLOWSKI thanked him for that suggestion. They may have not captured that concept; the concept being that the lodge owner would perhaps be a sport guide outfitter, and that is in the responsibility section that links the licenses back together so the outfitter can be held responsible for what the assistant guide is doing while under their employ. He went on to explained that Article 4 on page 16 contains the definitions. The most important definition is for "compensation" on lines 21-29. Since licenses are linked to providing sport fishing or sport fishing services for compensation, the definition of this word is very important. He is currently reviewing different suggestions for it. Sections 4, 5, and 6 are conforming since such a substantive change is being done to the licensing system. Section 8 on page 22, lines 4-8, addresses sunsets and repealers. Section 10 is fairly standard language for transitional appointments when a board (Sport Fishing Guide Board) is being created. You want to stagger terms so that members aren't all coming up at once. Section 11 is accepting applications; and he noted they need to do a better job with the transition provisions to make it easier for existing guides to transfer from the existing framework to the proposed one in DCCED, if this were to pass. There is concern that the transfer would provide a lot of opportunity to deny a lot of people licenses, and that is not the sponsor's intent. Sections 12-14 are effective dates related to different provisions in the bill, and are part of the transition framework they are trying to do a better job of working on. Those dates will change as they try to figure out how quickly the DCCED can fulfill this mission. 4:11:47 PM SENATOR STEVENS said he has serious reservations about the bill. He has received many communications saying it is not needed or wanted. At ease from 4:12 p.m. to 4:14 p.m. 4:14:13 PM CO-CHAIR WAGONER announced he would hold SB 24 in committee.